Sunday, February 01, 2009
Duct Tape Alert!
This is wrong on so many levels it's unbelievable. When I think of this "pastor's" attitude and then think of some of the great pastors I know - men like Barry Arnold, John Ingram, Jacob Martin, Mark Mowery and many others. Some of my readers may not know who these men are because they're not big "cool" nationally known individuals, but they are real pastors who love their people! They're not simply goat herders trying to fill seats on Sunday's but they are men who rejoice when their people rejoice and cry when their people cry. Their hearts bled for their people and they give everything they've got for the purpose of seeing souls won to Christ. I as a young pastor would much rather be identified with these men than to be part of the "in" group of pastor's and be "cool" and "relevant." I may not be the Pastor of a church of thousands, but God has called me to the church I am at and I love my people!
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wow thats sad and disgusting and totally ridiculous
ReplyDeleteWow!! Unreal!
ReplyDeleteIt is sad and disturbing.
ReplyDeleteBeing the pastor of a mega-church can be a stumbling block, since above a certain number it is difficult to know everybody personally; you have to depend on multiple pastors. I'm not sure if the mega-church model is where we should be.
Very sad video. I may not know those men you mentioned, but I have a really good friend that I know if I was in the hospital he would be there. I know when him and his wife left to go pastor another church I was so upset that they had to leave. But now I can see what God had in store for them. Him and his wife has a great church and their church is so loving.
ReplyDeleteMan, and I thought people took scripture out of context!! Honestly, did you watch his entire sermon? Do you know what context even surrounded those comments? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it would be safe to assume that the answer to both of those questions is a resounding "No!" I have watched that entire sermon (and many others by Noble), and I think it looks pretty silly to come off in such a half-cocked manner. But that might just be my own heathen opinion coming through....
ReplyDeleteBut, honestly, what difference are these posts/comments even going to make? Nobody's going to change your mind, and you're not going to change anybody else's. All it does it add a few little sticks to your fire and helps Satan accomplish his goal of tearing The Church apart. Again, probably just my heathen side there....
Well, since we're all cool with taking things out of context here, I'll be rocking out with Proverbs 31:7 tonight! :-)
Allen,
ReplyDeleteIt's great to see my favorite critic is still reading my blog! ;-)
Yes I have watched/listened to this sermon by Perry Noble, and yes it is really long, he has a potty mouth, and I'm not sure I would call it a sermon...
I don't think I took anything out of context. He does say in the full video that there are Pastors in the church who would visit people in the hospital if needed. Obviously in a church the size of his he can't visit everyone. My problem is with his attitude and the fact that he makes it clear that he's not going to visit anyone. The difference between his attitude and Christ's is that Jesus ate with people He didn't like and He visited the sick and afflicted. Again, obviously Perry Noble can't visit all of his people due to the size of his church - it's the attitude that bothers me.
I reaffirm my original point in saying that I'll take Barry Arnold or any of the other men I mentioned over a Perry Noble any day and I as a Pastor chose to be identified with them. They are real Godly Pastor's who exemplify the love of Christ to their churches and to the world around them. They're my heroes!
The reason I posted this was because I'm afraid many people (in the movement I'm a part of) are being drawn away into the seeker sensitive mentality. Many others are swallowing everything guys like Perry Noble (and others) say and think it's just great - without discernment whatsoever. Many believe that since guys like Noble are filling up their churches with their seeker sensitive methods that this is the way we need to go. They see only numbers and fail to realize the cost involved. I post the things I do with hopes of making people aware of what is going on in this seeker sensitive, purpose driven movement.
Stay tuned, some time in the near future perhaps I'll post a full explanation about why I am so opposed to the seeker-sensitive movement.
I guess if I can get people to t-h-i-n-k (as your dad used to always say in class) I've succeeded.
I don't know about you, or any of the other readers of my blog, but I know as for me, I refuse to play around with sin and the world. Any church that excuses sin or uses sinful methods and worldly enticements to lure people to come to church - I'm not interested in!
God forbid that I would destroy the Church with my blog (which you said won't change any minds anyways). Perry Noble shared his opinions too. In his sermon he told the people if they didn't like them they could "Get the hell out" of his church! This is another example of his attitude problem which is totally out of line with a what a shepherds heart should be,
Allen, if you don't like my opinions I hope you don't leave my blog - I hope you keep reading! Maybe some day I'll change your mind! :-)
LOL! I think I'll stick around for a little while at least :-)
ReplyDeleteBut I still disagree with you. Oh, I do believe that attitude is very important, but I don't really get where Perry's is "ungodly." As for his "get the hell out" statement, I think it would also be good to note his explanation of that phrase and his use of the word "hell." I for one have seen too many people sour a church (from various denominations and theological backgrounds, so I'm not stereotyping) with petty arguments and disagreements, and I wished that they would have just packed up and moved them and their "hell" out of the church.
As for being seeker-sensitive.... I'm failing to see that as well. Just because a church fails to lambaste and guilt trip people over some of the ridiculous issues that I have heard preached does not automatically mean that they throw the gospel out the window. I think I can honestly say that 50% of what I heard preached as "black and white" while growing up had little or no spiritual basis and were nothing more than man's little imperialistic ideas. Which I believe is just as wrong as a church/preacher who waters down salvation.
I'm not sure how much of Perry's stuff you have listened to/watched, but I fail to see how he doesn't identify sin as sin. That's one point that I have heard stressed over and over again: Sin is sin, no matter what, and salvation through Christ is the only way to get to Heaven, regardless of how "good" of a person you may be. That is the Gospel message if I've ever heard it (which, unfortunately, growing up it kinda got misconstrued into so many other things).
And I disagree with your whole idea of the "shepherding" aspect of things. Does a shepherd sit down and scratch each little Fluffy behind the ears? Or does he lead them as a group? If you are a farmer, are you doing your job poorly if you place the food in a large area for multiple animals to gather and eat? Or are you supposed to spoon-feed each cow and pig (or sheep)?
And if megachurches are so bad, then why did Christ speak to such large multitudes? Yes, he also met with small groups as well, but a good portion of His ministry was with large groups. Feeding 5,000 plus women and children? I bet if Perry Noble did that he would get blasted for "only going after the numbers."
The in-question YouTube video has the comment about "I was sick and you did not visit me." But how many people have you fed this week? How many have you clothed? How many prison inmates have you gone to see? If you do all of that each week, that is great! But I think it would be safe to say that you are only human.
I agree wholeheartedly with his comments about not sacrificing his family on the alter of ministry. I am appalled by people who say they are willing to sacrifice their families in order to "do the work of God." I have experienced it, I have witnessed it happen to others, and putting the ministry ahead of your family is not only ungodly but pathetic. If a CEO put his job before his family he's labeled a workaholic. If a preacher/pastor/someone in the ministry puts their ministry above their family, they are labeled a spiritual hero. It just doesn't make sense....
I guess what all of this boils down to is the simple fact that I strongly disagree with you on this. But I am at least glad that you are trying to make informed arguments as opposed to just going off what somebody else said. And I can respect you for trying to spread the word about something you feel so strongly about. But I still totally disagree with you :-)
Anyhow, I think I'm gonna go find some heathen activity to engage in....